Conservative Families

I sit down to discuss the "Childless Cat Lady" phenomenon from JD Vance with my mother, and what that means for our individual family dynamic.

Transcript

A quick disclaimer before we begin

This podcast is intended to be non political in nature. Enjoy the programming. 

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the goldeythoughts podcast. I am here with a very special guest today for my inaugural episode. In order to get to know a little bit more about me, I thought that the best way to do that was to introduce someone that's very special to me.

Thank you for being on today. Well, thank you for having me. I'm Jennn's mother. I want to say a disclaimer right at the top of the episode. This episode is going to be more structured around my personal life.

There are some things happening in the political sphere right now, that are pretty much leaning towards family rearing. And I'm going to be spring boarding off of a couple of subjects that's happening right now. We're recording this in August of 2024 for a timescale , but I want to say right off the top that this is in no way meant towards being a political  podcast.

 But a few things that are happening right now touch me in a very personal way, and I wanted to bring on a couple of people that could help further enrich my story, because I think hearing from just me 

isn't correct, I think I should bring on people  that know me better and can also shed some light.

 The podcast episode is Conservative Families. This is the springboard that I'm dropping off of. Basically, it's on the things that, VP Elect J. D. Vance has been saying recently in media.  According to a 2021 interview with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, the U. S. is being run by, quote, "A bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices they've made, and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too. How does it make any sense that we've turned our country over to people who don't really have a direct stake in it?" Unquote.

 I thought to myself,  I don't really ever remember someone that was childless ever being made fun of, or criticized, or even brought to discussion in any way,

like, Well, it's kind of interesting.

I think that,  times have changed so dramatically that, what happened when I, or my mother, for that matter, was rearing children. We didn't necessarily focus on the size of the family.  We focused more on the ability to provide. We were in a small town, a very rural, small town, and when you went to the grocery store  or when you went to church- even in the school systems, because I taught school for a while. You never really paid any attention to whether or not there was one child, or whether  or not somebody was childless. It,  really didn't have. Dramatic impact,  it didn't raise any eyebrows.

It was something that we didn't focus on. What we really focused on was the ability to be able to financially afford them.

Unfortunately, I think today, unlike  many, many years ago, people were a little more frugal. We didn't live off plastic. 

For an example, if there was an emergency and  somebody got hurt and you needed to go to the hospital or  you needed to call a tow truck.  That was an unexpected bill. 

So my generation. And  my brother's generation, which I have two brothers. And as far as my parents, the use of credit cards was non existent. We lived and we worked, we didn't live off the government. When you did live off the government, or needed the government for subsidies, then, it was because you ran across some unfortunate circumstances in your life,  because most everybody that was capable of working worked. And, you either, A. Lived paycheck to paycheck, or B., you were fortunate enough to be able to  stick a little bit of money back. 

 It was just very unheard of, to use a credit card or live off plastic.

Um, but conservatively speaking, having children was considered a luxury. 

Very much so. It wasn't like, oh, you're going to have a large family or whatever. I can't really separate religion from it because religion had always been there, right? Um, you know, religion's been around since forever. 

Because you're seeing larger families  being a thing now, and the first thing that goes through my mind is,   how can these people afford them? I know children cost money.

I guess I should say to my audience, I don't have children. So this is coming from someone who is an older millennial. I've made that choice, even though I do have a partner... Let me ask you, you know, that since you've brought that up, Jenn. Yeah, as your mother, I've never really discussed     Having friends who don't have children also, one comment that I've heard them make was,  If there was anything that I regret in life, and I mean, friends being my age now,  in their sixties, they say, If there was anything that I ever regretted in life,  it's not completing my maternal instinct of having at least one child. Do you ever think about that?  I do.  I do, actually. And, to the point where I'm not totally writing off having kids, even though I'm hitting that brink of where, it's too late. Like,  I'm going... yeah, I think so.  It's so funny because every time you and I have a conversation, any time that's brought up, you're like, you're too old. So you do. Yeah,  I'm not entirely so opposed, but it's not in the cards, so it's probably never going to happen. So you're one of those cat ladies that Vance was speaking of,   I think that touched a personal core with me, and I can't deny the fact that is present.

However, I also felt like.  I just had a moment where something shifted in my consciousness, and I'm like, Wait, this is the conservative party? When I was younger, the conservative party didn't think like this.  My raising of children, you and your sister, was kind of twofold, because the first 13 years of your life, I was married.

And then I became  a single parent. So, the 13 years that I was married, about four years of that, I was a stay at home mom. And the primary breadwinner was my husband.    My role, as well as my mother's role, was that the woman was,  this is ,strictly by choice. 

Stay in the house,  and clean, and not necessarily cook, because my ex husband was a butcher. That was  his trade.

My primary role was to raise the children and take care of the house.  I was able to go to the PTA meetings, and I got to know who my children's friends were.

I got to know who my children's teachers were. And then when I got divorced,  everything completely changed. Not only was I the role model of raising my children, but I was also the primary breadwinner. So, I was less engaged. And I think that's what's happened today.

And I do have to agree with Vance,  on the statement that when you have children, it does put a spin  on what  your day to day activities are, as opposed to if you don't have children.

So, your day to day activity  as  a childless,   person is, whatever you want it to be.  Right. Exactly. 

I'm going to briefly talk about the fact that there's some data that larger families are on the rise, even with the declining U S,  population,  which is interesting.

I was like, is that actually true? And yes, that is, that is actually true. But despite

 the declining US population, what American's dreams of an ideal family doesn't quite match up with what's actually going on as far as birth rate, because, this was a Gallup poll that was published in July 8, 2018, a little bit dated,  but 41 percent of U. S. adults think that families with three or more children  is ideal. That is up from 38 percent in 2013 and 34 percent in 2011.

So every seven years or so, a new poll gets released and the numbers keep increasing about more Americans think that three or more children is ideal. That's increasing  since the eighties,

so it's kind of interesting, even though  birth rates are declining in the U. S. right now, the people, when they're polled, and say, what do you believe is the ideal family? I mean, something that you may not even have or are able to achieve, more people are saying that  three or more are considered something that's good, where, when I grew up, three kids in a family was, like,  a lot a- Large.

Yeah  It was considered a large family, where now three is considered ideal, or mid, and even more would be considered okay, even though that's not necessarily what's reflected in the birth polls. So, I feel that is that is definitely a cultural change,  from when I was younger.

I think economics plays a role in it. Yeah. Because,  well, yeah. It didn't used to be that way. People were conservative about how many children they had, because, if you had a kid, you had to make sure that you raised them through to college, right?

I think there's a lot of variables to it, Jenn. And not only do I think it's economic, but I also believe that, and this is my opinion, but, you have to provide structure.

There's a structure to raising children. I don't know necessarily about you, but maybe the younger children,  the generation  below you, Jenn,  I don't know that there's that much structure.

 I mean, my parents had more structure in World War II, going through the rations, not having sugar, only having so much flour. I've never had to live like that. In my generation. No, neither have I. Yeah. But they were very structured.

They made a pound of sugar last a month. Where today we're a society that everything's very disposable.

I think we're on the same wavelength. It's not necessarily so much a political thing, it's more of, This is what you should be doing,

this is when we go to bed, this is when we wake up. Politics didn't enter it. Correct.  That's cons-what you thought of,  what they consider a conservative family, that was the structure  that was brought up, and if you enter too many variables into that, like if you had four or five or six children,

 not saying it's impossible, because it's definitely possible, there are moms that do that. But it's harder to keep that sort of structure, and to divvy up those rations, and that food and those- . I would think  so. That's my personal opinion, but yeah, I think it would be. 

It's like if you're multitasking, and somebody says you can focus on this one task ,or you can focus on seven at the same time, what's more difficult?  You spoke of,   the farming, where they're having large families.  Yeah, well, this one,   it's the one that's making, uh, news right now at the same exact time the J.

D. Vance quote is happening, and I find it so interesting that these things are coinciding at the same time, but they're actually really unrelated to each other. But it's the same kind of mindset.  We live on the farm, we have a whole bunch of kids, we get married when we're very young, we have kids almost immediately,  within the first few years of each other, boom boom boom boom boom, like, that's  That's hard.

Interestingly enough, if you put it in perspective,  when you live on a farm  and you have your own eggs and your own chickens and  you have to pluck the feathers and you have to boil them  for food,  and then you have your cows, and your goats, or whatever,

that's impossible by one individual, so therefore, like back in the day, you had large families. And in maintaining the farm, each individual   is given  multiple tasks  a day that they're responsible for,  and there's no debating that.  I tell you, you go out and feed the chickens, you go out and feed the chickens, and I don't want to hear any backtalk because the chickens need to be fed.

So I agree with what you were saying, like if you have a large farm, with a family,  that in itself gives  structure. I know that not everyone lives on a farm that can do that, though most people can't afford a lot of land. 

Um,  But yeah, that's true. That does give you structure. And I'll fully agree, hand in hand, on that.  But, do you remember any particular,  lessons that were passed down about  family rearing or child rearing from your mom who... when was she born? 1923, and my dad was born in 1922.  Okay.  I believe the correct terminology from people that were born in that time is the silent generation. Um, which I was very, very lucky

to  know my grandparents very well. 

 My father, came  from France when he was about three years old with my grandfather. 

They had a farm and during the summer, when he was out of school, he worked on the farm and as soon as he was able to graduate, he went into the military, and the military gave him his education. He was in world war two, he was in the air force. They went through the depression, and they were  living on an air force base at the time of the depression.

So everything was extremely rationed.  Then when my mother and father were married, they had three children and I was the third. I was the baby. My dad was of the opinion that women didn't need a higher education. He was very old school, of course, that the woman stayed home, which my mother did  and raised the children, and take care of the family,  and the men provided. 

My brothers both had a college education, were very successful. And I was kind of the school of hard knocks, as you will.  I was unexpected. My mother had me when she was 38, my dad was 39, and my siblings, both my brothers, are 15 years older than me.

By the time my parents had me, they were very involved with their professional careers.  My father owned his own business, and my father also worked for a corporation, so 

he had two jobs. I was kind of on my own. 

You have to understand, I grew up during the sixties and seventies in high school.

There was a lot of protests with the Vietnam era and a lot of rebellion going on, a lot of drugs.  Um, and the only time that, as a young girl growing up that I can remember large discussions about, families and political viewpoints was when my brothers would come home  and they would all get together, my brothers and their wives and my mom and my dad.

They would get in very heated discussions, my dad and my brothers, about economics. And   those  discussions would go on for three or four hours.

My parents really didn't lean me,  any direction pertaining to life's choices, how to balance a checkbook. I was pretty strong and pretty determined and pretty outgoing enough that  as soon as I graduated out of high school, I went to work, I went to work in a factory  and just saved every dime I could.

I just made my way through life because I didn't have a higher education. You never outright said anything to me or Joanna that I remember growing up, but I just felt like, we lived in a rural town, so there wasn't a whole lot of families for me to  see when I went to the grocery store, but, that wasn't something that we heard of until we went to a larger city, and then we saw one, and it was like... something you kind of, gawk and stare, like, Oh my gosh, how many kids? Again, it all boils down to economics,  and we were raised in Apalachicola, which is nothing but fishermen. 

It was economically depressed.   Personally, I thought it was great. I mean, you know, it was a great place to raise a child.

 Family was a great thing to have.  And in looking back on it now, as I'm older, I sometimes wish we wouldn't have moved  from the small town. Things might have been a lot different for our family.  But, you guys  turned out great, even though I took you to a larger city,  and you made your way, so.

It's kind of interesting because I can remember my father always saying- Dee!- Which was my mother's name- I raised the boys.  It's your turn to raise your girl . And I think my dad was pretty hands off. You go tell her, if you don't like what she's doing, Dee, you step up and you tell her. She doesn't need to hear it from me.

Mm-Hmm. . But I can tell you that  if I didn't listen to my mom? My dad would set me down and he would lecture me for hours.  And I better not move off that chair.  Yeah.  My mother  was genuinely warm,  endearing. Yeah, she was all those things.  She was, and my father was very much the stern back of the hand.  So, yes.  Yeah, he was. I knew- he was. Yeah. So, and I'm thankful for that, because  there was a lot of times in my life where I chose  not a good road, and If it wasn't for my father, who knows where things would have, how things would have turned out.

I don't know. You, you had a pretty good head on your shoulders. Meanwhile, Joanna and I both got the stern set of parents.  You think your dad was stern? Oh my God! Yes, yes, yes.  I guess we could go into it.  He was conservative in every sense,  religiously, conservatively, actually politically... he was all of those things.

He was more, if you disobey, I will actually sit you down with the Bible, and we're going to read a Bible verse together, and we're going to say about how this displeases the eye of God.  I had the interesting thing of, not only was my grandparents of an older generation, but you were not from the South, you were  an implant here  to Florida, and my dad was Southern Baptist, and you, you weren't very religious growing up, but technically the background was French Catholic?

So, it was kind of, it was kind of nice. 

Still, ideally, having children is wonderful. I'm not anti children. In fact, I think children,  children are a great thing. My sister has children,  and I love them dearly. They're, amazing kids.

They're wonderful kids, but it is so difficult to start and raise a family now in a way that I would see would be ideal.  My standards may be astronomically high.

But at the same time, I can't just snap my fingers and change and be like, Oh, it's okay.  Have a kid right now. It's fine.  I can't, I don't feel good. comfortable.  I always thought that growing up, that would be something that would be applauded by a more conservative mindset. Would be like, Hey, wait, that's good,

don't just go out and have kids, or don't have kids if you know you're going to put them on social services. 

 But now I feel like  the rhetoric has changed to where it's like, it was just never a push to go out and have kids and I'm hearing that message to younger people now and I was like, I don't... I don't remember that, that being  even talked about.

 Like, you just, you either had kids on your own or you didn't. It wasn't even a talking point. 

I think it's become a society that, I want it today, I want it now, I don't want to have to wait. I agree. And I'm not going to change my lifestyle, for an example, disposable diapers.

I didn't use disposable diapers.  My mother didn't use disposable diapers. Well, I sit back and I look at people going, if you have three and four children that are not over the age of six or seven, at one point in time, a couple of those children are going to be in diapers, maybe one in newborn and the other one in toddler.

It all boils down to how you want your lifestyle, and  are you willing to sacrifice? 

Are you willing to wash diapers?  I washed diapers. I hung them out on the clothesline because I didn't have a dryer.   You go up to Ohio today, and you go into the Amish countries, and you'll still see clotheslines on a pulley.  They take a pulley, and they run a rope all the way out to a pulley on a tree, 30 or 40 feet,  and the rope comes back to them, and they take and they pull that rope, and they take their clothes out on a clothesline, string them all the way out there to that pulley, As soon as they're dry, they pull that rope, bring them back in.

They don't use,  today, they don't use  wash machine or dryers. I don't even know how, if they use wash machines because they don't have electricity. Yeah, that's true. So,  you know, you sit back and you think, what are you willing to sacrifice? 

 Because you can make it work.  But yet you're going to have to sacrifice.  It's so easy to pull out the credit card. It's so easy to go on social services. If you can't afford pampers.

 You sit and you look at Large families, and you think, How can you afford four or five children?

But maybe she used cloth diapers, and she didn't go out and spend her money  on disposables  You know, maybe she nursed all her children and she didn't go out and buy formula for all of them.  Maybe she used the blender and made her own baby food instead of going out and buying baby food. Maybe she doesn't have an automobile, maybe she takes public transportation.

So, it's just a matter of what you're willing to sacrifice, of whether or not you can afford a large family,  or a small family, or none at all.  Our particular family  is set up so nicely to talk about this, because you have two children, one child doesn't have any children, and the other child has three children,   and we were raised in a conservative way, but I don't feel like  I am looked down upon  compared to my own sister. I'm not seen as  less of a daughter or less of a person in the family unit  because I don't have children.

Oh, no. No.   It's not like, oh, we can't talk about the fact that Aunt Jennny is the, it  childless aunt, or that she doesn't have kids, or that she's my daughter who doesn't have kids.  And it's also not bad that Joanna has three , on the flip side of the coin. No one's mad at Joanna for having kids.

That speaks very positively of us, because maybe other people have had that, or maybe that's just something that's talked about outside that I feel pressured, sheltered, that- yeah! Maybe that is something that's happening right now, that's been going on.

And I'm very lucky, or very privileged, to not  feel that way. Whether or not someone has kids or not is a personal decision. It's not, like, a foregone conclusion or public service. You need to do your duty now, ma'am.

Like, if you don't, your ovaries are going to expire and the world cries and weeps and mourns. Like, you know, I didn't know that that was the vibe. But,  maybe it is. I'm happy to talk about this with my family, and I know that maybe not everybody in my position, being an older millennial, and choosing not to have kids,   can  have the space to talk about that with their family members. 

If they're in a position where I'm at, where they're the aunt that doesn't have kids, maybe they're not able to talk about that, which has to be sad. So I wanted to be able to,  have my family members, like my sister and my mom,  just talk about our family unit and the fact that,  you know, it's okay either way.

And I still personally think that that should be a personal choice.

That's not, like, a qualifier as a person. You know what I mean? It's like: name,  date of birth,  height, weight. Do you have children? And if you don't check all those boxes... I say woman, it shouldn't even be a woman or man thing, but in the context of this particular conversation and what we're springboarding off of, it has to be brought up because it was specifically implied childless cat lady. 

Well, I think it was a really good conversation and I hope that I shed a little light on your background, and how you were raised, and I hope that, in speaking with your sister, it will shed a little bit more light onto our family dynamic, and  it's been an interesting conversation.

Well, thank you for coming on, and thank you for not judging me and, um, making me feel that   I didn't live up to my civic obligation. Oh, no, not at all.  

Such is life, right? Such is life. I love you, sweetie. Thank you for coming on.  Yeah, and thank you for having me. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye